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Press or Power Hammer

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William Milton
Posts: 18
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

I am looking at expanding my shop.  Would I be better served getting a press or a power hammer?

I was looking at the Coal Ironworks 12 ton mini press.  Is it a good press that should last me for years, or should I look at something larger?

For a power hammer I was looking at the Big Blu 65, but was wondering if there was anything slightly less expensive that anyone would recommend?

Thank you

Erik

Erik Milton

 
Posted : 02/06/2023 10:26 am
Posts: 140
Estimable Member Apprentice Bladesmith
 

Personally, I went with a 12T press.  I have had it for over a year and works quite well.  One thing is the number of dies that I have needed and made.   One consideration I had in choosing the press over hammer is noise.  I am currently building a dedicated shop, but until then, I am in my residential garage and the noise is already something I am conscious of.  

I would say if your primary use if for blades, I would do a press then power hammer.

If you are blacksmithing then bladesmithing, I would get the hammer

Bob Bryenton
Solar Storm Group Ltd.
Phone: (780) 953-0016
Email: [email protected]
https://www.solarstorm.ca

“The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible" -- Arthur C. Clarke

 
Posted : 02/06/2023 10:44 am
William Milton
Posts: 18
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

Thank you Bob,

That is where I was leaning. The 12 ton press seemed like the best choice for immediate use and portability if I ever get a dedicated shop area built.  I am working out of my garage right now as well.  

Erik

Erik Milton

 
Posted : 02/06/2023 11:28 am
Posts: 10
Active Member Apprentice Bladesmith
 

I'd suggest visiting some local makers and ask to see how each works.  

also look at your shop floor. Will it stand up to weight and force of a hammer

 

 
Posted : 03/06/2023 11:35 am
William Milton
Posts: 18
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

Thank you Vic,

I think I have decided to set the power hammer idea aside for now and maybe up the press to the Coal Ironworks 16 ton.  As far as grinders go, I am also looking at taking a step up from my Buck Tool 2 x 48.  I am looking at the Ameriblade 2 x 72, the mastery package seems like a decent deal, especially when they have it at $3200 like they did over Memorial Day.  Does anyone have experience with them?  Currently, I don't have the time, space or equipment to build on myself.

 

Erik Milton

 
Posted : 03/06/2023 2:16 pm
William Milton
Posts: 18
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

Thanks Michael,

     That is why I was looking at the Ameribrade, the Mastery Package comes with pretty much everything except a surface grinding attachment, and has the stand included, so I would be able to move it around the shop.

Erik Milton

 
Posted : 06/06/2023 10:32 am
Posts: 130
Estimable Member Apprentice Bladesmith
 

I don't have an Ameribrade grinder but I did buy there rotary platen and 2×6 inch combo platen They both seem very well made and run true. My only problem with the combo platen is if you do hidden tang integrals (and other operations) you can only use one side of the platen the frame gets in the way . My 2 cents. 

Gilbert 

 
Posted : 06/06/2023 12:27 pm
BRION TOMBERLIN
Posts: 105
Forum moderator Forum Moderator
 

 Hello William. I have used an Ameribrade and most of the others. Nowadays most of the big name grinders will be good machines. I think the Ameribrade mastery package is a good deal and gives you everything you need. It will be a huge upgrade over your 2X48. I say if you can get it, go for it.

Brion

 
Posted : 07/06/2023 9:27 pm
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 742
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

I tend to agree with Brion. MOST any of the well known name brand grinders are "good".... however, I feel the Ameribrade has a fatal flaw.... that being the tracking tension mechanism.  That is unless it's be updated/changed since the last time I worked on one.  What am I talking about?  The spring tension/tracking wheel/arm. 

  It's simply physics, With the short hinge point, combined with thee short tension arm it is the weakest link in the machine, and in my experience, I just wasn't pleased with how it operates, compared to the rest of the machine.  For that level of grinder/money, there should be a solid COMPRESSION or RATCHET type belt tensioning system.  I also feel there are many "extras" in that "mastery" package, that you will likely use only a time or two, then they'll end up on a shelf gathering dust.    

  I've always found that a compression type tracking tension system, whether that be a compression spring, or one of the small spring/hydraulic cylinders (which IMO also have their "fatal flaw" in a grinder application) provide for what I consider the be the best belt tension/tracking systems.   I'm not trying to bash anybody's grinder, just being straight up honest based on my own grinding experiences.   

 
Posted : 08/06/2023 8:45 am
William Milton
Posts: 18
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

Thank you Brion and Ed for your advice. 

I guess my next question is about upgrading my forge.  Right now, I have a Hell's Forge 2 burner, but was looking at getting either  the Diamondback MetalSmith , the Diamondback Billetmaster, or Pro Forge 200?  I was also looking at the Chili, but that is going up another price bracket.

Erik Milton

 
Posted : 08/06/2023 5:49 pm
Ed Caffrey
Posts: 742
Prominent Member Master Bladesmith
 

I can't give you a lot of direction on production forges.  I've personally never found one that checks off all the boxes for me.  Honestly, for a basic single burner/venturi forge, it's pretty basic/easy to make, and the only reason I suggest that, is because you can make a round forge and setup the burner so it actually works like it should.

I've never understood why these companies build a round forge, then place the burner(s) at 90 degree angles, with the burner(s) blowing directly on the work piece.  The whole idea of a round forge design is to create a "swirl" in the burner/flame, for more even heating.  And don't even get me started on multiple venturi burner forges..... 🙄 😏

  This is one area where I advocate building your own....simple because I believe that currently there isn't a production forge out there that is work it's cost.   Sorry....again, not trying to bash anyone or their tools, just speak from experience.     

 
Posted : 08/06/2023 8:08 pm
Posts: 6
Active Member Journeyman Bladesmith
 

I've never regretted spending money on a tool, but I have regretted not spending enough money on a tool. I bought a single speed grinder, to save the 500 dollars to get a variable speed. Within a year, I traded up to a variable speed grinder. I think you would have the same experience with a lightweight press. I have a 25 ton by Tommy McNabb, It works well, but I have tried to do things it couldn't handle. He sold a 50 ton version for that kind of work. Tommy was working on a bench top 12 ton model, but it would only work on the smallest billets.  Several people took it home for a while, but they all brought it back saying the same thing. Go ahead and spend the money and get something 25 tons or better.

 
Posted : 09/06/2023 6:47 pm
Posts: 44
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith
 

William,

I’m a bit late to the party but will share a few thoughts.

  • Money and time invested in an ABS school, or a private class from an MS will take years off the learning curve, AND you see/use their tools to get a feel for what you like. 
  • Any of the top grinders are worth the money.  Ford vs. Chevy Vs. Dodge in my opinion.  I use the TW and Pheer. 
  • Building a forge is relatively inexpensive and easy.  I used info from Karl A, Ed Caffrey, and S. Schwarzer to build mine.  Pretty fun project.
  • Press and Hammer are long term investments at my house and I’m an over thinker.  I went with the hammer first.  It took 5 years after using one at a class to decide which one I wanted.  Went with the Anyang 106.  
  • After A few more years of saving I recently landed on the Anyang 25T press as well.

Not saying any of this is right or wrong, just the route I’ve chose.

 
Posted : 10/06/2023 4:57 pm
William Milton
Posts: 18
Eminent Member Apprentice Bladesmith
Topic starter
 

Matt,

     I plan on going to the Bill Moran School, but that will be some time next year.  Steve Schwarzer  is just about an hour and a half down the road, and I have been planning to take a class with him for awhile, hopefully I will be able to some time this fall after I get the kids settled in college.  I think I have decided on the Ameribrade Mastery Package for a grinder, it seems like the most bang for your buck.  I know it might come with a lot of accessories I may never need, but better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.  Going to try to build a ribbon forge, and I think I have decided on the Coal Ironworks 25 Ton Press.

Erik Milton

 
Posted : 23/06/2023 2:32 pm
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